Curse

Aug · Jun 21, 2005, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

You want to know what the fundamental problem is?

PvE players, after completing the game, want something repetitive to do that still results in 'advancement'. They want to grind money, or new equipment, or levels, or something for their character. They spend a million gold on a perfect Storm Bow because there's nothing else for them to do with their characters. Or, in simpler terms, they want something to grind, and their grind options have steadily been taken away.

On the other hand, PvP players have tons they need to grind out once they complete the game - they need to unlock more sets of skills, more weapon upgrades, and then there's the maddening superior rune grind. Of course, the good pharming spots and the ability to grind out those runes quickly have been removed, which in no way lessens the need to grind but does impact one's ability to.

In short, PvE players want something to grind, but don't have any options. PvP players want nothing to do with grind, but have a thousand hours of it staring them in the face. That's your fundamental problem.

Peace,
-CxE

Agreed.

The game needs to unlock upgrades and runes upon completion.

And they need to do something to give PvE players a reason to play. I'm not sure what I want to do... I enjoy GvG, but my guildmates have shown no desire to unlock the skills they need to really compete... and it's only getting more and more difficult for them to do it, every passing day. I'm not sure any of them will be still playing by the end of the month.

kungfumonkey2 · Jun 21, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Well, to combat boredom sometimes me and guildies go exploring. We have found some pretty random areas. There is an area a ways away from fisher mans haven that has a white water lake, and is FILLED with white mantle so many they killed off our group of lvl 20's. What ever the place is after Reed bog (near Vintaris Refuge), if you go far far back in that jungle, you can find a statue of Balthazar that will take you to fissure of Woe. My ultimate goal is to walk from Ascalon city to droknars, and then from there head as far west as I can go. I want to try to remove the fog of war from all the areas on the map as possible, on just 1 character. A guildy was telling me that even in pre-searing you can explore areas that are like still under construction, and that are so full of monsters you are not able to run past.

sino-soviet · Jun 21, 2005, 06:06 PM // 18:06

I believe the problem is really more simplisitic than it seems. Bring back farming and more grind to satisfy the PVE'ers. Maybe Arenanet did make the promise of no grind and no repetition, but it seems like what they have promised and the general premise of the game was NOT what the buyers were really looking for. Looking closely, every problem addressed can be fixed by adding repetition. It may not be what people would love to do, but it would give them something to chew on between expansion packs. So bring back the grind, bring some powerleveling, make some dungeons and a more immersive world, and voila! The premise of Guild wars is ruined but future sales and replay value go up.

Lane · Jun 21, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

I've said it a couple of times before, and I'll say it again. Whining about being bored is a waste of everyone's time, yourself included. Constructive posts giving ideas about how to make it more interesting are the way to go, but leave the whole 'WAHH... I'm bored' bit out of it... this (and no other game) will be the answer to your life's problems. Changes to the game are happening constantly, and it will change with the community who stays around to see it. It won't happen overnight, but it seems like some of you are demanding just that.

How long has the game been out? A month and a half or something? Give me a break whiners... some people have the attention span of a fly. Go start posting your unhelpful nonsense on the BF2 forums or whatever next big game is coming out, and leave this game and its community to the people who still like the game.

I've followed this game since October/November of 2003... longer than I've followed any other game. I've played in all the beta events and I still play hours a day. I'm not bragging or saying everyone should be this way... I'm just posting some information related to the other half so there is a little more balance around here. I enjoy the game, and I see plenty of others who do as well. If you don't, then post constructively on ways to fix the problems and leave your whining out of it.

When does BF2 come out?

Spyle · Jun 21, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

What is up with GvG anyways? There is way more to HoH than there is to the "Guild Wars" in this game we call "Guild Wars"...

I don't get that at all and it was one of my biggest disappointments.

How about some 16vs16 guild fights and maybe some 32vs32 guild wars.

Dyeeo · Jun 21, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Guild Wars is called Guild Wars not because of gvg battles but because of the lore of the game.

Oh and I am not bored of the game btw. Just maybe a bit irked that I have to go through the storyline over and over.

Creston · Jun 21, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by sino-soviet

I believe the problem is really more simplisitic than it seems. Bring back farming and more grind to satisfy the PVE'ers. Maybe Arenanet did make the promise of no grind and no repetition, but it seems like what they have promised and the general premise of the game was NOT what the buyers were really looking for. Looking closely, every problem addressed can be fixed by adding repetition. It may not be what people would love to do, but it would give them something to chew on between expansion packs. So bring back the grind, bring some powerleveling, make some dungeons and a more immersive world, and voila! The premise of Guild wars is ruined but future sales and replay value go up.

I think there is a big difference between HAVING to grind and wanting to do a bit of farming.
The sad thing is, Arenanet says that people don't HAVE to grind, but then they nerf farming, which was fun for a certain group of PvEers, but they still force PvPers to grind for those skills / skillpoints.

Personally, I don't mind the occasional bit of farming to try to get some loot. Money lets me buy some dye, or dwarven ale, or perhaps even a decent axe (the one I have now has extra bleeding duration. BLEEDING! There is no bleeding axe skill....), and if that means I have to gank a few mobs of critters for a few hours, I don't really mind. The thing is, why was farming ganked for people that didn't mind, or even LIKED doing it, but at the same time, PvPers are still being cheerfully told "1 skillpoint per 20000 xp! HAHAHAHAHA"

Farming = nerfed.
Grinding = Dev endorsed.

In the end, I think it's not so much that people want repetition added, they just want to have an idea that their character is actually still progressing, and since you can reach level 20 fairly rapidly, a lot of people I think thought they would still progress with items and such. But the whole item part of the game is terribly terribly sparse.

I think farming can be fun and the hard assed stance against it doesn't really help anyone. Make it so that people CAN farm if they want to, but that they don't HAVE TO farm.
Right now, in the game, you really HAVE TO farm, you just really can't.
Or at least ,you can until Anet discovers it, and then nerfs your area and adds 700000000000000000000000000000000000 more disenchant critters...

Creston

Spyle · Jun 21, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

If they add more variety to the GvG then I may pick up playing again. Improve the rating system for guild, give more detailed stats on players in the guild. Make it IN GAME on the menu for people to see the top guilds and such.

Add more modes such as defending a castle. Keep the opposing guild from reaching a certain point and/or killing the "king" in your castle within a time limit.

Add some catapults to it. They are all over in PvE, why can't we have some in GvG? Make a mode where you have to destroy the opposing guild's fort with said catapults.

How about some dwarven kegs inside eacothers base where the first one to reach said kegs can use them to open the way to a dragon to fight on their side.

These are all random ideas I just pulled out of my butt.

What do we have now? A priest/guild lord and flags. Yawn.

sino-soviet · Jun 21, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I think that right now, a little bit of farming can buy people what they need. But what else is there to do? Pve is pretty much dead, as we mutually can agree. Its simply a lack of advancement, as stated. Unfortunately, to most people, grind and money and "uber" equipment is a sure sign of advancement, and that seems a quick and efficient way to give people something to do until more true content is released. Lets be practical; There is NO POSSIBLE WAY Arenanet can satisfy PVEer's who play 5-6 hours a day by adding new content. So grind, farming, and expansion packs is what will hold the game together. Sorry, but playing an online rpg is going to take some comittment.

Now for PVP.

I think that pvp, as also stated, needs to be COMPLETELY accessible to anyone who has beaten pve even once. Upgrades, superior runes, all of it. Matchmaking could prove extremely useful. Its more of the PVP interface and choosing a party which has annoyed people more than the pvp itself. I strongly believe by changing the PVP interface and giving people something to chew on in between expansions, Guild Wars will be a satifying way to spend time.

Spyle · Jun 21, 2005, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyeeo

Guild Wars is called Guild Wars not because of gvg battles but because of the lore of the game.

Oh, sorry. Guess I'm not too bright.. Picking up a game called Guild Wars in which you have Guild and fight with other Guilds. I should have never expected it to have lots of GvG content. Silly me.

kungfumonkey2 · Jun 21, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Think of new ideas, here is a post I made today actually that relates to this topic. And it has nothing to do with nerfing.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=23881

Borealis · Jun 21, 2005, 06:37 PM // 18:37

I'm starting to get bored with the game too. Ever since they started to nerf farming everywhere I've had a chip on my shoulder against anet. I'm not looking to get into the farming is right or wrong debate, it was fun, I enjoyed doing it, I enjoyed sitting in lions arch trading.

Now that all of its pretty much dead its tough to keep up with cost of items nowadays, so I've been wanting to buy a gold fellblade for weeks now but it's impossible to compete with people trying to sell them for 300-400k. Where do you expect me to come up with that? Missions....riight. Not to mention I've already invested almost 400 hours which obviously means theres not much to do.

I guess I'll just have to load up GTA:SA more often at least until they release the new explorable areas.

northernlights · Jun 21, 2005, 06:55 PM // 18:55

I switched to Guild Wars from WoW because of the poor PVP encounters in that game.

Well, with the introduction of properly-tested PVP Battlegrounds the tides have turned back in WoWs favour, IMO.

Guild Wars still reins supreme for a new gamer looking for quick PVP but if you have to time/skill to level cap characters in WoW the PVP experience is phenomenal (this has all occured in the last 2 weeks). The classes are fairly balanced (despite what n00b x might say) and they've improved combat professions (engineering, alchemy) in a number of interesting ways as well.

The quality of PVP in both games is now so close that it comes down to character uniqueness and gear selection for me, and Warcraft is clearly the winner there. Theres something satisfying for me about hearing the rustling of a nearby rogue, throwing on my stealth detection goggles and pounding him into the ground. The other big thing for me is I get a real kick out of invading or defending massive cities from a hostile faction. Epic battles (w/ hundreds of combatants) over huge cities is something really exciting that guild wars lacks.

So yes, I have become less interested in Guild Wars because if PVP isnt clearly superior to World of Warcraft, I see no point for players with gaming time to invest to be here. If you have time to spend working for your gear the end game PVP in WoW is (now, as of last week) phenomenal.

Ben Reed · Jun 21, 2005, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Personally, I'm not getting bored with the game at all.

Unfortunately, for some of my e-friends, the magic seems to be going out of GW for them. This really sucks for me, because really, I'm a vastly different kind of gamer from most.

I almost never buy games that I don't plan to play for at least a year continuously, where most of my old acquaintances from the Starsiege: Tribes community seem to just go with the flow of whatever new games are coming out. Hell, I played Starsiege: Tribes for almost half a decade, and I only stopped because it was interfering with my schoolwork. I woulda played Tribes: Vengeance for about that same length of time if it hadn't been for the fact that none of my e-friends were playing it.

Unlike most of America, I also love games that appeal primarily to a competitive audience, and have an unfortunate tendency to alienate those that aren't -- games like Starsiege: Tribes, the Armored Core games, and my personal favorites, the Street Fighter games. Guild Wars PvP is definitely the main draw of GW, but it is unfortunately very rough on anybody who's not in a well-organized PvP guild.

At the same time, I'm also -- much to my dismay -- a lot different from the hardcore audience that these games do appeal to. When I fall in love with a game for the merits of its competitive multiplayer, I tend to stay in love with it for a VERY long time, long after many of my old buds from Tribes say "OK, I've had my fun with this, but now I'm bored. Say, here comes another new game for me to have a three-month fling with before ditching it!"

All too often I come into these games just when their popularity starts to fade, and by the time I get in and start playing, all my buds have moved on. I really hope this doesn't happen to Guild Wars, because while it does get rather monotonous outside of organized guild-based PvP, I believe that component of PvP is so well-conceived and well-constructed that it can keep the game viable and lovable for a good, long time...assuming people give it a chance before moving on to the latest and greatest thing.

I dunno, maybe I'm just an old-fashioned, one-or-two-video-game kinda guy. I just wish the world was more like me so that I'd have more people to play with.

Lane · Jun 21, 2005, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Reed

Personally, I'm not getting bored with the game at all.

Unfortunately, for some of my e-friends, the magic seems to be going out of GW for them. This really sucks for me, because really, I'm a vastly different kind of gamer from most.

I almost never buy games that I don't plan to play for at least a year continuously, where most of my old acquaintances from the Starsiege: Tribes community seem to just go with the flow of whatever new games are coming out. Hell, I played Starsiege: Tribes for almost half a decade, and I only stopped because it was interfering with my schoolwork. I woulda played Tribes: Vengeance for about that same length of time if it hadn't been for the fact that none of my e-friends were playing it.

Unlike most of America, I also love games that appeal primarily to a competitive audience, and have an unfortunate tendency to alienate those that aren't -- games like Starsiege: Tribes, the Armored Core games, and my personal favorites, the Street Fighter games. Guild Wars PvP is definitely the main draw of GW, but it is unfortunately very rough on anybody who's not in a well-organized PvP guild.

At the same time, I'm also -- much to my dismay -- a lot different from the hardcore audience that these games do appeal to. When I fall in love with a game for the merits of its competitive multiplayer, I tend to stay in love with it for a VERY long time, long after many of my old buds from Tribes say "OK, I've had my fun with this, but now I'm bored. Say, here comes another new game for me to have a three-month fling with before ditching it!"

All too often I come into these games just when their popularity starts to fade, and by the time I get in and start playing, all my buds have moved on. I really hope this doesn't happen to Guild Wars, because while it does get rather monotonous outside of organized guild-based PvP, I believe that component of PvP is so well-conceived and well-constructed that it can keep the game viable and lovable for a good, long time...assuming people give it a chance before moving on to the latest and greatest thing.

I dunno, maybe I'm just an old-fashioned, one-or-two-video-game kinda guy. I just wish the world was more like me so that I'd have more people to play with.

Great post... I agree with all of what you said. The only thing is that I actually believe the community will become much better after the whiners leave for the latest greatest game. I know that some of your friends (and mine) will be leaving in that group as well, but so be it I say. I'm here to play the game, have fun, get even better at it, and I look forward to seeing how Arenanet improves the game over the next year.

EDIT: My personal favorite older game series that I have stuck with since the beginning is Romance of the Three Kingdoms... you'd think someone would get tired of it after playing it since release 1 on Nintendo years ago

.

Mister Pie · Jun 21, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

I feel like I've gotten my money's worth. I'm not sure what people are expecting without a monthly fee. I'm really more of a PvE guy and I will defintely be back for the expansion.

kungfumonkey2 · Jun 21, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Ben you are a man after my own heart. I hear ya bro. I buy maybe 1 game a year, and then that game I play until my fingers bleed. Some people are like well I beat the Fire Islands games over. For me it is becoming a true master of the game. Something people need to realize is that the game is not done yet. They already have added 2 new zones like Maguuma Stade, and the game is only 2 months old? How many of you have been to the area Tears of the Fallen? Or even heard of it?

I play thru game after game on consoles like PS2. Those game don't have much depth to them, PC gaming is like fine wine. PS2 is like a box of wine. The 1 console game I really got hooked on was FF10 though.

See I day dream about GW, I am trying to concot a new PvP build that will rival the current Spike, Spirit Spammers. In order to do this you have to have intimate knowledge of skills and what they do. Just reading a skill description doesn't give you all you need to know. You have to know the cast time, and after cast, and its effectiveness against a non-monster.

If you need someone to game with Ben let me know, I play everyday from about 5pm-12am EST, and pretty much every waking hour on the weekends.

Nokomis · Jun 21, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borealis

I'm starting to get bored with the game too. Ever since they started to nerf farming everywhere I've had a chip on my shoulder against anet. I'm not looking to get into the farming is right or wrong debate, it was fun, I enjoyed doing it, I enjoyed sitting in lions arch trading.

Now that all of its pretty much dead its tough to keep up with cost of items nowadays, so I've been wanting to buy a gold fellblade for weeks now but it's impossible to compete with people trying to sell them for 300-400k. Where do you expect me to come up with that? Missions....riight. Not to mention I've already invested almost 400 hours which obviously means theres not much to do.

I guess I'll just have to load up GTA:SA more often at least until they release the new explorable areas.

Okay this is odd. I have noticed three different people today saying they are turning to GTA: San Andreas because they have gotten tired of GW. And I did the same thing. I hadn't played GTA:SA for a long time but I really wanted to play it after GW started to get old. Is there something in GTA:SA that is completely lacking in GW? What is it? Good NPCs? Character customization? Interesting missions? Helicopters? LOL. Or is this all just a coincidence?

Also, when I was playing GTA:SA yesterday I wondered why nobody has made a medieval fantasy type RPG in the GTA style. That game engine would be really nice in a more typical fantasy RPG game.

--Nokomis

Zeru · Jun 21, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Pvp is fun, pve is boring after you doing it once and awful after 3 runs through. I too bought GW to last but it definitely won't, at least the pvp community won't, until major attention is brought to that area and not to fail to save the stagnant pve game. Sigh, if only they could've realized the potential that the betas had. Every lasting game that I've played, Starcraft for 6 years, Tribes 1/2 for quite a few, had great gameplay and a central community. This game's pvp community is just getting alienated and that is the biggest recipe for future failure.

Algren Cole · Jun 21, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nokomis

Also, when I was playing GTA:SA yesterday I wondered why nobody has made a medieval fantasy type RPG in the GTA style. That game engine would be really nice in a more typical fantasy RPG game.

--Nokomis

Rockstar North built the engine from the ground up...and refuses to sell it or allow proprietary use to any other developers.